Jan

God, Allah, Tuhan and The Catholic Weekly’s Herald Print

3rd September 2010 (Updated) | Category: Politics and Social Issues

comment_close_god_allah_discussion
When a blogger lost a comment/argument with her reader, she took the easy path by removing the comment feature. Loser!

Anyway, those who are interested in politics should be aware by now the ongoing court case between the Herald print by the Catholics in Malaysia. To wrap things up, the Herald newspaper is suing the government for not allowing them to use the Arabic word ‘Allah’ in their Malay language section.

The Catholic’s argument for using the ‘Allah’ word instead of ‘Tuhan’ are:

The term Allah has been used in the translated High Malay Bible since the 1800s. “Munshi Abdullah, the father of modern Malay literature, translated the Bible into Malay in 1852 and he also translated ‘God’ as ‘Allah’ so there is strong historical proof of what we have been using for centuries,” said Andrew.

Wikipedia has this to say:

Allah is the standard Arabic word for ‘God.
Use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to “God”.
Arab Christians today, having no other word for ‘God’ than Allah, use terms such as Allah al-Ab “God the Father”.

Now, the Herald print for the Malay section is in Bahasa Malaysia, therefore the right word for GOD in Bahasa Malaysia is TUHAN and not ALLAH. If there are no other words or any other alternative, then use the Arabic word ALLAH. I can go on for ages, for three generations, just answer these questions:

Can we change our Rukun Negara from KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA TUHAN to KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA ALLAH? If it is okay, then you have my support.
If you find nothing wrong in using the ALLAH word, I suggest you walk the talk, next time, tell you kids “Pray to Allah for the food on your table.” or “Oh my Allah!” or “In the name of Allah, stop cursing!” Use it in your wedding vows too!
Since mixing Arabic word with the Malay language is acceptable, why not go all the way, amend all the english bibles with the word GOD to ALLAH.
During Sunday prayers, tell your kids :”Pray to Allah” not “Pray to God”

Why, too hard for you to say the ALLAH word in front of your kids? or in church? WALK THE TALK! It is after all okay to use the ‘Allah’ word, right? wrong? I see, problem using it in front of your kids?

Don’t tell me because the English word for GOD exists, therefore we don’t use the word ALLAH in English bibles. The right word for GOD in Bahasa Malaysia is T-U-H-A-N, and not ALLAH. Come on, lets be realistic. The ‘ALLAH’ word refers to the Muslim God more than any other God.

If the bible is in Arabic, by all means use the Arabic word for God – which is ‘Allah’, problem is, it is in Bahasa Malaysia, not Bahasa Arab.

Lots of Christian boycotted the da vinci code movie, when a news reporter interviewed a Christian on his reasons for boycotting the movie, he goes on explaining in details why we should boycott the movie. When asked, “Have you seen the movie in a cinema?” His answer was ‘No’. Don’t you have your own opinion? Instead of digesting every single word said by your priest, go watch the movie and conclude it yourself based on your own views and experience.

I am opinionated, I don’t digest rubbish from politician and religious people blindly. If I intended to leave everything for God to decide, (He is a busy person, serious!) then he would have made me into an Ape. Fate is for animals and none thinking living organism, are you one?

Comments and arguments are encouraged, don’t worry, I won’t be rude when it comes to replying another person’s comment, unlike some ‘holy’ and self proclaimed ‘religious’ person with bad words such as moron, shit, weed. Bad Catholic!

TheMalaysiaInsider.com has an indepth report on this issue – Catholic paper defies ban on use of ‘Allah’

Wordpress Tags: Allah, Arabic Word, Catholic weekly, Court Case, Father Lawrence Andrew, God, Malay Bible, Malaysia, Religion, The Herald, Tuhan good samariten law lukas 10:25-37 bahasa indonesia, are allah and god the same Catholic, themalaysiainsider, debat islam vs kristian, Tuhan yahweh, Allah Maha Tinggi, written comment weekly herald, Allah dan Tuhan, Malaysian God Tuhan, the catholic weekly by herald

14 Comments

Rozaimi
on January 20th, 2009
1
Hi Calvin,

Interesting posting, good and logical presentation. However, if I may correct you, the word “Allah” is not an Arabic translation for the word “God” in English or “Tuhan” in Malay. The Arabic translation for the word “God” and “Tuhan” is “Rabb”. For example, if the Arab people say “Allahu rabbi” it means “Allah, my God”.

Allah is a special noun like your name and my name, which cannot be translated into any other language. For example, we don’t call George Bush as George Semak in Malaysia because George Bush is a special noun. Another example is Pearl Harbour. In Malaysia, we do not say it as “pelabuhan mutiara”.

I hope my point add more sense to your argument.
mut
on January 21st, 2009
2
I thought the Bible was revealed in Hebrew. Why is it translated from an English one?

Why is the BM translation from the English one is deemed accurate? What would the referral be for accuracy? Answer : The original.

You really got under Lillian’s skin though. It’s ad hominem now and name calling !
Calvin Ngan
on January 21st, 2009
3
@Mut – Am just having a healthy debate with Lilian, she seems to be somewhat childish, name callings, using foul words. What kind of Mother and Catholic is that? Shame. Shame. Shame.

The original translation need not be accurate, and the Herald justification for using the ‘Allah’ word is because someone translated it 100 years ago and it is widely used due to the original bible.

Can we call a black man ‘Niger’ now just because someone/book/newspaper did the same thing 200 years ago?

@Rozaimi – Is it? I didn’t knew ‘Allah’ is a noun. Whatever it is, the word ‘Allah’ does not seems right in a Christian context.

Like I said, if they don’t see a problem using the word ‘Allah’, then they should start replacing ever word for GOD in English to ALLAH, even in their Sunday prayers or during their eating time.
Nymous
on January 21st, 2009
4
Now first of all the government ban the printing of Malay Bibles because of reason you know. So the church have to import Indonesian Bibles which use the word Allah. Now let me ask you if it is wrong why is it allowed in Indonesia and even Arab world? Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world with over 250 million population. The Arab Christians use the word even before Islam was born. Do you know that?

In Christian publication they often have to quote Bible verses as it is written in its entirety complete with Chapter and Verses numbers. So since they use Indonesian Bible it’s quoted as it is. Also So when you have been reading the word you use it to express yourself familiarly to God in those words.

Now your suggestion to change all English word God to Allah is very childish and ridiculous. Why would English speaking people use Allah when they have been using God? It’s not wrong either to use but why should they?

Just like the Chinese word for God is Shang Ti or Shen. You can suggest them to use the word Shang Ti/shen in place of God which is not wrong but why should they?

Now if you have been calling your father, say “Dad” or “Daddy”. If someone suggest you to stop using the word but use “Papa” instead would you? It means exactly the same thing. But because you have been used to calling him “Dad” or “Daddy” you feel dearer to him in those terms. There is this fondness between you and your father when you use those familiar terms. If you don’t believe me try calling your father something other than the usual term you’ve been calling him for years and see if he feel strange.

Or if you have been calling your girlfriend “Darling”, “Honey” ..etc would you change it to something else because others forbid you to because they also call their girlfriends with the same words?

Below is a story I copied from elsewhere to illustrate the point:

A man invited some friends’ families to his house for dinners.

During the dinner, some of the invited families’ children as usual ask to their dads, saying:” Dad can I have this… that… the other” “Daddy, can I have the potato chips…this .. that ..and the other…” The usual stuff that happen during meals with children.

The man got very upset and said to the guests:” Please forbid your children from using the word “Daddy” ”

The guests ask:”Why?”

The man said: ” Because my children call me “Daddy”, they may get confused if your children also call you “Daddy”. They may mistake you to be their Daddy.”

The guests: “But they have been doing that since they were born. And everybody do that everywhere!”

The man replied: “Well, you can do it elsewhere but not in my house!!!”
admin
on January 21st, 2009
5
Nymous said: “Now your suggestion to change all English word God to Allah is very childish and ridiculous. Why would English speaking people use Allah when they have been using God? It’s not wrong either to use but why should they?”

Ngan says: No, it is not wrong to use the ‘Allah’ word for a christian bible. Don’t you get it? What I am trying to say is, use the right word for the right language only. Allah is an arabic word, unless the herald has a section in arabic then by all means go ahead, but the section is in BM, therefore the right word in BM for God is Tuhan.

USE THE RIGHT WORD FOR THE RIGHT LANGUAGE!
Nymous
on January 22nd, 2009
6
The Malay Bible which is banned use the word Tuhan (if I’m not wrong). The government only allow Indonesian Bibles to be used, and Indonesian Bible use the word Allah. As such The Herald uses the same word that they are familiar with and have been using all these years (even since before independence) when they quote scriptures.

That’s what people do when you quote excerpts from any book. You quote it as it is in the original book. You don’t change the word anyway you like.

The bottom line is you can’t forbid others to use certain words that you don’t even own in the first place. Arab Christians use the word for over a millenium, even before the birth of Islam. Till now no Arabs have objections to it. And don’t forget Arabs are the originator of Islam. Don’t you think they are more authoritative and expert in this subject?

Now if someone chooses certain foreign words in other language that’s really their choice. Nobody can forbid them. If an American chooses to use a Chinese word, say “Ma Ma” to mean something else like father or brother can anyone forbid them? Can the Chinese say “Ma Ma” is our word and it means mother, you cannot use the word to mean something else. Use your own language.

One last example:

Say if your American boss tells you to change your name from Calvin to Kalvin or Ke Vin because his name is also Calvin. He’s afraid the office might get confused. Since you are a Chinese you shouldn’t use English name but Chinese name.

Would you go along with that? Maybe you would for the sake of employment, nothing wrong with that. But you may also choose not to and nobody can say you are wrong either.

This is like Microsoft saying nobody can use the word “Windows” in capital W because Windows in their trademark. How ridiculous can you get?
Nymous
on January 22nd, 2009
7
Use the right word for the right language?

Hokkien: Gua mana* eh chai?
*mana – Malay word
(How do I know?)

Cantonese: Suma* tor hai yat yong keh
*Suma – semua
(They are all the same)

Malay: Kopi-O kaw*
*kaw – thick in Hokien
(Black coffee thick)

Aksi aksi* yang hebat
(Great actions)

Ini perkara yang serius*.
(This is serious matter)

Seksyen* – Section Shah (Alam, PJ)

Presin* – Precinct (Putra Jaya)

There are hundreds of examples and I think you can think them yourself.

Ever wonder why they have to use those words in asterisk*? Familiarity of expression!!!

Can you tell them to stop using those words and use the right word for the right language instead?

This is my last comment. If you still can’t see the point ………………..
admin
on January 22nd, 2009
8
@Nymous – I do see the point, those examples you gave a dialects not written language for books. For the Seksyen, it is borrowed from the English vocabulary because the Malay vocab is limited, however, for ‘Allah’ we have ‘Tuhan’, we don’t need to borrow the arabic word, do we?

Not to mention, if you see no wrong in mixing BM and Arabic, why don you walk the talk by mixing Arabic with English. Yes, tell you children: “Pray to Allah for the food on the table!” Can’t say it out loud? something wrong? Can’t Mix Arabic with english?
arah Shuqaiq KSA
on February 6th, 2009
9
My dear Calvin,

Thank you for an excellence article.

2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

Let observe what in Malay

2:255 (Malay) “Allah, tidak ada Tuhan (yang berhak disembah) melainkan Dia Yang Hidup kekal lagi terus menerus mengurus (makhluk-Nya); tidak mengantuk dan tidak tidur. Kepunyaan-Nya apa yang di langit dan di bumi. Tiada yang dapat memberi syafaat di sisi Allah tanpa izin-Nya. Allah mengetahui apa-apa yang di hadapan mereka dan di belakang mereka, dan mereka tidak mengetahui apa-apa dari ilmu Allah melainkan apa yang dikehendaki-Nya. Kursi Allah meliputi langit dan bumi. Dan Allah tidak merasa berat memelihara keduanya, dan Allah Maha Tinggi lagi Maha Besar.”

Let us analyse another very important verse of the Al Quran

112:1 (Y. Ali) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112:2 (Y. Ali) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112:3 (Y. Ali) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112:4 (Y. Ali) And there is none like unto Him.

Let observe that there are Tuhan and there are Allah written.

112:1 (Malay) “Katakanlah: “”Dia-lah Allah, Yang Maha Esa,”

112:2 (Malay) Allah adalah Tuhan yang bergantung kepada-Nya segala sesuatu.

112:3 (Malay) Dia tiada beranak dan tiada pula diperanakkan,

112:4 (Malay) “dan tidak ada seorang pun yang setara dengan Dia”".”

Let understand the most important commandment from Jesus which was neglected
by some Christians and Muslims

The Greatest Commandment and the Parable of the Good Samaritan

Jesus engaged in much public debate with the Pharisees and Sadducees, two Jewish factions that opposed Him and his teachings. It was during one of these debates that Jesus stated the Greatest Commandment:

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).

“Love your neighbor as yourself” was part of the Old Testament law (Leviticus 19:18). But the Jewish teachers had often interpreted “neighbor” to include only people of their own nationality and religion. In Luke, the man who asked Jesus about the greatest of the commandments wanted justification for that interpretation, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” In response, Jesus told the famous Parable of the Good Samaritan. A Jewish man had been beaten by robbers and left half dead beside the road. Two different religious leaders passed by but did nothing to help. Finally, a Samaritan man came by and took pity on the injured man. He gave him water, patched up his wounds, put him on his own donkey and took him to an inn where he could rest and recover:

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” He answered: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’ “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” (NIV, Luke 10:25-37 )

Calvin, do you know Jesus didn’t called the Lord ” Father” or “Johavah” but ” Allah”

Let see the prove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTSG0YzlGB8
THE Passion of Christ, JESUS CALLED GOD: ALLAH

Isn’t that very interesting?

May Almighty God the Creator bless us and show us the truth.

AMEEN
P
on August 23rd, 2009
10
In English,
YAHWEH -> Lord/Jehovah
ELOHIM -> God

in Malay,
YAHWEH -> Tuhan
ELOHIM -> Allah (cognate)

Hebrew has more names for God than Malay, what’s wrong with importing? Even English uses Jehovah sometimes.

The arguments in the post are more for rhetoric than debate. Why do you use Christ/Messiah (Greek/Hebrew) instead of Anointed-One (En), and Jesus (Greek Iesous, Hebrew Yehoshua) rather than The-Lord-Rescues?
amin
on January 1st, 2010
11
salam debat…APA TUJUAN UTAMA pihak Herald terigin sangat menggunakan perkataan Allah?Kenapa isu ini baru sahaja timbul?bukankah selama ini penganut agama kristian biasa dengan perkataan Tuhan?Apakah perkataan tuhan atau God yang digunakan selama ini oleh penganut kristian tidak cukup sempurna untuk menggambarkan tuhan mereka selama ini…apa pula sifat-sifat yang boleh membezakan antara perkataan GOD,…TUHAN…dan ALLAH menurut syariat agama kristian? dalam islam…semua penganutnya dalam pelbagai bangsa dan bahasa pertuturan tempatan menyebut tuhan mereka dengan satu perkataan sahaja iaitu ALLAH…walau apapun hujah-hujah yang dikemukakan…saya melihat pihak kristian semakin bercelaru dalam mencari kebenaran tentang sifat TUHAN dalam syariat mereka…
ik
on January 3rd, 2010
12
‘Allah’ was already being used by Arab pagans long before Prophet Mohammed raised Islam. Therefore it is wrong to say that ‘Allah’ belong to Islam only. http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-pre-islamic-origin.htm
m. naz
on January 8th, 2010
13
Wonderfull explanation. I am a mix of all the races in malaysia such as Chinnesse, Indian and Malay. i respect ur point of view.
But, Allah is a respectfull word tht is use for malays or islamic religion. All religion has their own name for their own god. We Malays, respect that. MALAYSIA, is a country that has already MERDEKA. We already prevented war against other countries. but war is happening in our own country. PEACE. PEACE. PEACE.
admin
on January 8th, 2010
14
@m. naz

1. If what they claimed the word Allah is God in the arabic language, then ‘Allah’ is not exclusively referred to the Muslim’s God.
2. “All religion has their own name for their own god.” I don’t quite get it, what other name besides GOD?

p.s. put it simple, many religion different path to enlightenment, same God.